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	<title>Comments on: TTC: slow, inefficient, inconsistent&#8230;and now, thanks to the sketchy union, non-existent.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.nuncscio.com/2008/04/26/ttc-slow-inefficient-inconsistentand-now-thanks-to-the-sketchy-union-non-existent/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.nuncscio.com/2008/04/26/ttc-slow-inefficient-inconsistentand-now-thanks-to-the-sketchy-union-non-existent/</link>
	<description>Politics. Media. Culture. Now you know.</description>
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		<title>By: Annabel Lisa</title>
		<link>http://www.nuncscio.com/2008/04/26/ttc-slow-inefficient-inconsistentand-now-thanks-to-the-sketchy-union-non-existent/comment-page-1/#comment-12182</link>
		<dc:creator>Annabel Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 09:54:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuncscio.com/?p=841#comment-12182</guid>
		<description>I am a student barely getting by tuition fees...I can barely afford living out. I get good grades and have had scholarships in the past. I have never disrespected a TTC driver in my life, but have felt their rudeness towards me quite often (I say thank you, good night, they ignored me almost always. My bus is never on time. They have been so unhelpful when I tried to get directions to places...) Now having to pay $3 per trip is going to be torture. not everyone has the liberty to spend and spend and spend...especially when you&#039;re in a transitional time in life like university. Most people who take the TTC probably can&#039;t afford a car.....so to hear about this price raise in 2009 after continual raises in the past....FEELS LIKE A SLAP IN THE FACE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a student barely getting by tuition fees&#8230;I can barely afford living out. I get good grades and have had scholarships in the past. I have never disrespected a TTC driver in my life, but have felt their rudeness towards me quite often (I say thank you, good night, they ignored me almost always. My bus is never on time. They have been so unhelpful when I tried to get directions to places&#8230;) Now having to pay $3 per trip is going to be torture. not everyone has the liberty to spend and spend and spend&#8230;especially when you&#8217;re in a transitional time in life like university. Most people who take the TTC probably can&#8217;t afford a car&#8230;..so to hear about this price raise in 2009 after continual raises in the past&#8230;.FEELS LIKE A SLAP IN THE FACE.</p>
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		<title>By: James Bow</title>
		<link>http://www.nuncscio.com/2008/04/26/ttc-slow-inefficient-inconsistentand-now-thanks-to-the-sketchy-union-non-existent/comment-page-1/#comment-8336</link>
		<dc:creator>James Bow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 00:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuncscio.com/?p=841#comment-8336</guid>
		<description>As I said &lt;a href=&quot;http://bowjamesbow.ca/2008/04/26/on-the-ttc-stri.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;elsewhere&lt;/a&gt;, ATU Local 113 acted irresponsibly in a number of levels, and ultimately did their membership a grave disservice. The 65% vote to reject the offer should NOT have been taken as a 65% mandate for an immediate strike. Certainly drivers and ticket collectors, especially those who had to face angry crowds as the subways closed early, were ill served by the shock announcement, and many are resenting the union executive as a result.

However, I must take issue with the comment: &quot;There is no way you should make more than 60K a year to drive a bus.&quot; With respect, that&#039;s a bit ignorant of the facts. If TTC workers were really as overpaid as you would suggest, you&#039;d think there&#039;d be a line-up of people applying for jobs. But there aren&#039;t. In fact, the TTC and GO Transit are having great difficulty maintaining the drivers they have. A number of new employees take the TTC&#039;s six-week training course, get the upgrade to their license, and then hi-tail it to private charter bus companies, where the pay is just as good, where they don&#039;t have to face Toronto traffic and potentially angry commuters for eight hours a day, and where they get to keep tips.

_Privately run_ bus companies are offering wages which are more than competitive to the TTC&#039;s union wages and seniority. Therefore, if you feel that TTC workers are overpaid at $60K per year, your beef is not with the unions, but with the capitalist marketplace. This is what the market has said these workers are worth, and we have to lie in the bed that we&#039;ve made.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I said <a href="http://bowjamesbow.ca/2008/04/26/on-the-ttc-stri.shtml" rel="nofollow">elsewhere</a>, ATU Local 113 acted irresponsibly in a number of levels, and ultimately did their membership a grave disservice. The 65% vote to reject the offer should NOT have been taken as a 65% mandate for an immediate strike. Certainly drivers and ticket collectors, especially those who had to face angry crowds as the subways closed early, were ill served by the shock announcement, and many are resenting the union executive as a result.</p>
<p>However, I must take issue with the comment: &#8220;There is no way you should make more than 60K a year to drive a bus.&#8221; With respect, that&#8217;s a bit ignorant of the facts. If TTC workers were really as overpaid as you would suggest, you&#8217;d think there&#8217;d be a line-up of people applying for jobs. But there aren&#8217;t. In fact, the TTC and GO Transit are having great difficulty maintaining the drivers they have. A number of new employees take the TTC&#8217;s six-week training course, get the upgrade to their license, and then hi-tail it to private charter bus companies, where the pay is just as good, where they don&#8217;t have to face Toronto traffic and potentially angry commuters for eight hours a day, and where they get to keep tips.</p>
<p>_Privately run_ bus companies are offering wages which are more than competitive to the TTC&#8217;s union wages and seniority. Therefore, if you feel that TTC workers are overpaid at $60K per year, your beef is not with the unions, but with the capitalist marketplace. This is what the market has said these workers are worth, and we have to lie in the bed that we&#8217;ve made.</p>
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		<title>By: Graeme</title>
		<link>http://www.nuncscio.com/2008/04/26/ttc-slow-inefficient-inconsistentand-now-thanks-to-the-sketchy-union-non-existent/comment-page-1/#comment-8209</link>
		<dc:creator>Graeme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuncscio.com/?p=841#comment-8209</guid>
		<description>ADHR, thanks for your post, but I&#039;m afraid it&#039;s categorically incorrect. There are several key points you&#039;re missing;

1) The crucial difference between the TTC and many other workplaces is that it is a public utility. Not only do I pay to ride, but I pay for operations through tax dollars. And because they have a monopoly, I depend on its services. So I have a well-defined right to weigh in on this issue. If we take the word &#039;public&#039; in its proper context, I own the TTC, as do you.

2)I don&#039;t fault anyone for standing up for their rights. But again, the important distinction is that I can&#039;t leverage an undeserved raise from my employer because I don&#039;t have a monopoly on a service used by 1.5 million people every day. The TTC union has a spectacular amount of power which they seem willing to use irresponsibly. So don&#039;t play it off like they&#039;re the victims fighting against unjust oppressors. They&#039;re just playing the system. And rather cynically, too.

3) This is just incorrect. Management reached a deal, in good faith, with the union. The union then rejected the deal, and immediately went on strike. It pushes credulity to suggest that managements was the broken link in this chain. TTC management simply didn&#039;t have a chance to respond to the new situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ADHR, thanks for your post, but I&#8217;m afraid it&#8217;s categorically incorrect. There are several key points you&#8217;re missing;</p>
<p>1) The crucial difference between the TTC and many other workplaces is that it is a public utility. Not only do I pay to ride, but I pay for operations through tax dollars. And because they have a monopoly, I depend on its services. So I have a well-defined right to weigh in on this issue. If we take the word &#8216;public&#8217; in its proper context, I own the TTC, as do you.</p>
<p>2)I don&#8217;t fault anyone for standing up for their rights. But again, the important distinction is that I can&#8217;t leverage an undeserved raise from my employer because I don&#8217;t have a monopoly on a service used by 1.5 million people every day. The TTC union has a spectacular amount of power which they seem willing to use irresponsibly. So don&#8217;t play it off like they&#8217;re the victims fighting against unjust oppressors. They&#8217;re just playing the system. And rather cynically, too.</p>
<p>3) This is just incorrect. Management reached a deal, in good faith, with the union. The union then rejected the deal, and immediately went on strike. It pushes credulity to suggest that managements was the broken link in this chain. TTC management simply didn&#8217;t have a chance to respond to the new situation.</p>
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		<title>By: ADHR</title>
		<link>http://www.nuncscio.com/2008/04/26/ttc-slow-inefficient-inconsistentand-now-thanks-to-the-sketchy-union-non-existent/comment-page-1/#comment-8206</link>
		<dc:creator>ADHR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuncscio.com/?p=841#comment-8206</guid>
		<description>Jesus. Do people go into your place of business and tell you what you &lt;I&gt;must&lt;/I&gt; accept from your boss? Or is this something you and your boss work out between each other?

As I said over on my blog, jealousy and fear are raising their heads. If you think you&#039;re not making what you should, don&#039;t blame people who have the courage to actually demand better treatment. It&#039;s your fault for not standing up for yourself. 

Incidentally, I love the &quot;holding the city for ransom&quot; line. Who&#039;s really holding the city up: the union that is taking part in the negotiating process, or the management team that wouldn&#039;t respond to their bargaining positions yesterday?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus. Do people go into your place of business and tell you what you <i>must</i> accept from your boss? Or is this something you and your boss work out between each other?</p>
<p>As I said over on my blog, jealousy and fear are raising their heads. If you think you&#8217;re not making what you should, don&#8217;t blame people who have the courage to actually demand better treatment. It&#8217;s your fault for not standing up for yourself. </p>
<p>Incidentally, I love the &#8220;holding the city for ransom&#8221; line. Who&#8217;s really holding the city up: the union that is taking part in the negotiating process, or the management team that wouldn&#8217;t respond to their bargaining positions yesterday?</p>
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		<title>By: The Forbes</title>
		<link>http://www.nuncscio.com/2008/04/26/ttc-slow-inefficient-inconsistentand-now-thanks-to-the-sketchy-union-non-existent/comment-page-1/#comment-8205</link>
		<dc:creator>The Forbes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuncscio.com/?p=841#comment-8205</guid>
		<description>Chet, no one is saying it&#039;s an easy job. Shoveling shit isn&#039;t an easy job either but it&#039;s certainly not a job anyone wants to pay someone 80K per year to do. Mostly the issue is that the TTC staff are getting paid far above the majority of people in this city doing similar low-education service jobs who deal with the same kind of shit. They deserve a living wage, they have it, so they should stop whining about it and holding the city for ransom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chet, no one is saying it&#8217;s an easy job. Shoveling shit isn&#8217;t an easy job either but it&#8217;s certainly not a job anyone wants to pay someone 80K per year to do. Mostly the issue is that the TTC staff are getting paid far above the majority of people in this city doing similar low-education service jobs who deal with the same kind of shit. They deserve a living wage, they have it, so they should stop whining about it and holding the city for ransom.</p>
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		<title>By: senior</title>
		<link>http://www.nuncscio.com/2008/04/26/ttc-slow-inefficient-inconsistentand-now-thanks-to-the-sketchy-union-non-existent/comment-page-1/#comment-8204</link>
		<dc:creator>senior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 00:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuncscio.com/?p=841#comment-8204</guid>
		<description>A LOT of service-industry workers are threatened and verbally abused (especially ones who work in bars), and they don&#039;t make anywhere near 60K/year.

While I treat TTC employees with the utmost respect they deserve as human beings, I certainly wouldn&#039;t resent them as much if they didn&#039;t make so much money. I wish the people who maintain the trains and buses had a separate union, since they are actually skilled, unlike the ticket takers who sit on their asses all day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A LOT of service-industry workers are threatened and verbally abused (especially ones who work in bars), and they don&#8217;t make anywhere near 60K/year.</p>
<p>While I treat TTC employees with the utmost respect they deserve as human beings, I certainly wouldn&#8217;t resent them as much if they didn&#8217;t make so much money. I wish the people who maintain the trains and buses had a separate union, since they are actually skilled, unlike the ticket takers who sit on their asses all day.</p>
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		<title>By: mainja</title>
		<link>http://www.nuncscio.com/2008/04/26/ttc-slow-inefficient-inconsistentand-now-thanks-to-the-sketchy-union-non-existent/comment-page-1/#comment-8203</link>
		<dc:creator>mainja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 00:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuncscio.com/?p=841#comment-8203</guid>
		<description>you should see the vitriol in the comments on my post at blogTO.

it&#039;s quite incredible actually.

i&#039;m a bit worried about what&#039;s going to happen to the operators when they go back monday.  if they were beaten, threatened and verbally abused *before* the union decided they should leave their posts at midnight (i&#039;m betting the drivers weren&#039;t consulted on that timing), i can&#039;t imagine what it&#039;s gonna be like when they&#039;re back on the job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you should see the vitriol in the comments on my post at blogTO.</p>
<p>it&#8217;s quite incredible actually.</p>
<p>i&#8217;m a bit worried about what&#8217;s going to happen to the operators when they go back monday.  if they were beaten, threatened and verbally abused *before* the union decided they should leave their posts at midnight (i&#8217;m betting the drivers weren&#8217;t consulted on that timing), i can&#8217;t imagine what it&#8217;s gonna be like when they&#8217;re back on the job.</p>
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		<title>By: Chet Scoville</title>
		<link>http://www.nuncscio.com/2008/04/26/ttc-slow-inefficient-inconsistentand-now-thanks-to-the-sketchy-union-non-existent/comment-page-1/#comment-8202</link>
		<dc:creator>Chet Scoville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 21:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuncscio.com/?p=841#comment-8202</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;A Toronto Star investigation published this year showed that a growing number of front-line TTC workers are beaten, threatened, spit upon and verbally abused by the public, putting their rate of post-traumatic stress above that of Ontario police officers.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/350423&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Still think it&#039;s an easy job&lt;/a&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>A Toronto Star investigation published this year showed that a growing number of front-line TTC workers are beaten, threatened, spit upon and verbally abused by the public, putting their rate of post-traumatic stress above that of Ontario police officers.</i></p>
<p><a href="http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/350423" rel="nofollow">Still think it&#8217;s an easy job</a>?</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.nuncscio.com/2008/04/26/ttc-slow-inefficient-inconsistentand-now-thanks-to-the-sketchy-union-non-existent/comment-page-1/#comment-8201</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuncscio.com/?p=841#comment-8201</guid>
		<description>Agreed. Very uncool move.

Did you get stranded?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed. Very uncool move.</p>
<p>Did you get stranded?</p>
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		<title>By: The Forbes</title>
		<link>http://www.nuncscio.com/2008/04/26/ttc-slow-inefficient-inconsistentand-now-thanks-to-the-sketchy-union-non-existent/comment-page-1/#comment-8200</link>
		<dc:creator>The Forbes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 19:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuncscio.com/?p=841#comment-8200</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m gonna have to agree with Graeme here. There is no doubt that the TTC employees should make a decent living wage (50K give or take), it&#039;s an important job and we need those jobs filled to run the city. But they already have it pretty sweet and to pull this kind of a strike with no notice and their union head endorsing the deal... let&#039;s give em nothin!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m gonna have to agree with Graeme here. There is no doubt that the TTC employees should make a decent living wage (50K give or take), it&#8217;s an important job and we need those jobs filled to run the city. But they already have it pretty sweet and to pull this kind of a strike with no notice and their union head endorsing the deal&#8230; let&#8217;s give em nothin!!!</p>
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